170 – Cyclone Separator Shootout
100 Comments


Voiceover:The Wood
Whisperer is sponsored by Powermatic, the gold
standard since 1921, and by Rockler Woodworking and
Hardware. Create with Confidence. Marc:I need to apologize ahead of time because today’s show is
really going to suck. (groovy jazz music) Today we’re going to have
ourself an old-fashioned shootout taking a look
at some of the popular cyclone separators on the market. Separators have been around for a while. I remember when I first
started woodworking seeing plans for them to make your own, just using basic materials
from the home store. These days it seems like a lot of the dust collection companies
are getting in the game, and even Rockler has a unit
that’s fairly inexpensive. Sometimes you just have
to weigh the cost versus the amount of time you
would spend building it. All of these units I’ll tell you straight off are certainly capable
and they do the job, but there is one clear winner and we’ll find out which one it is. The review that I’m going to do on these, you know how I am with reviews. I’m not a professional reviewer. I’m just some dude in
a garage that likes to play with tools and give
his opinion on them. I’m going to give you a
very empirical results. We’re not really going
to measure anything, we’re not really going to weigh anything. I don’t have a dust meter
that’s going to detect how much dust makes it
into the environment. I just don’t have those capabilities, but I can give you my opinion
and show you some things so that you can make a
judgement call for yourself. Before we get started let’s talk a little bit about what these units are, what they do and why you would
want one in the first place. Even though all of these
systems may look different they all operate on the same principal. Essentially they’re the middle man. They go between the dust
extractor and the tool. This way as you’re pulling the dust in, the wood chips are coming
in, this is another layer of filtration that’s separating out the dust, fine and the coarse dust as well, before it even gets to the
dust extractor, so that what actually gets to the dust
extractor is very minimal. Why would you want to do that? It seems like this should be
doing everything we need it to do. In most cases it does, but there’s a couple
things to think about. Number one is safety. The more
we can separate out before it even gets to the dust extractor, the less chance there is
that that stuff is going to build up and wind up
exhausting out into the shop. It also extends the
life of the tool because that fine dust tends to get everywhere. Especially if you let it build up on the pleated filters and things, sometimes it just winds
up burning out the motor. I’ve lost more than one shop-vac
that way before I learned my lesson and started buying
the actual filter bags, which is the second point. Filter bags are expensive
and it’s something that as long as you’re a woodworker you’re going to have to continue
buying those things. This is one way to avoid
that because all this stuff is being separated out first
it’s going to take a really long time before you fill
a bag in one of these. You’re going to continuously
empty this container and never really have to worry about it. I don’t want to say never,
but you won’t have to worry about it nearly as
often and you won’t go through nearly as many
of those disposable bags. Interestingly enough, specifically Festool offers a solution to
this, and it’s something that I bought into a while ago. That’s a lifetime bag. Basically this is reusable
so I can empty it out and it saves me from having
to buy the disposables. Here’s the problem: This costs
200 dollars. None of these systems we’re looking at
today cost that much money. If you’re looking at it purely
from a financial perspective it makes a lot more sense
to do something like one of these cyclones than it does
to go with a lifetime bag. Just a few things to think about. (swinging electric guitar) The Oneida Dust Deputy
retails for 79 dollars, and that’s for what they
call their deluxe kit. It contains the bucket, of course you’ve got the cyclone here, pretty much everything
you need to get started. You can buy the cyclone
independently if you wanted to make your own custom solution, and you can also buy some
of their higher-end units for more industrial
applications and also one that specifically attaches to
a Festool dust extractor. For 10 dollars more at 89 dollars, you can get the Rockler Dust Right Vortex. This is something that you actually can get on sale quite often, so you could save 15 or 20 bucks on it, but the regular retail price is 89.99. Now the most expensive
unit in our shootout is the Clear Vue Mini CV
06. Retails for 149 dollars. We’ll have to see if it’s
worth that price tag. (swinging electric guitar) Now let’s talk about connectivity. It’s really important because
you want to know that when you get this thing home you’re
going to be able just to put it together and go to
work and you don’t necessarily want to worry about
cobbling together ports and making all of your hoses fit properly. The good news is across the
board every one of the units has no problem connecting using
the hose that it comes with. That basically connects
to the cyclone unit and into your dust extractor or shop-vac. All of those connections
were absolutely perfect. Where things are a little
bit more variable is with the hose that connects to your tools. First let’s look at the RIDGID
shop-vac. No problem at all, slides right on, and it
catches because there’s a little bit of a taper at the back of this port and you get a nice
friction fit there. No problem with the shop-vac. My Festool stuff, now I have two
hoses that I’m concerned about. This may not be the same
for everyone’s situation, even if you have the Festool gear because they do make different sized hoses. This larger hose that’s
part of my boom arm setup, this actually connects perfectly. In fact you push it just far
enough and you’ll feel it snap. That’s a perfect connection,
very happy with that. The one I’m a little bit concerned
about is my 36 millimeter connection. This is the
hose I use for my Kapex. This guy slides on and it
bottoms out inside the hose here, and that’s not really a good connection. Even using some of the things
that Oneida includes in the kit to help you tighten
up a loosened hose, it’s not really going to do anything, so I’m going to have to cobble
together a solution for that. Other than that everything works good it looks like just the 36
millimeter hose is a problem. The Clear Vue CV06. No problem
with the larger Festool hose. No problem here with
the 36 millimeter hose. Here’s the RIDGID shop-vac
hose, no problem there at all. All three of them work perfectly fine. Now the Dust Right Vortex. It looks like the larger
Festool hose, no problem. 36 millimeter hose, no
problem there either. And our RIDGID shop-vac hose, no problem. This one is pretty much a tie between the Dust Right Vortex and the Mini CV06. (swinging electric guitar) Now another really important
factor here is portability. Our dust extractors and
shop-vacs are already big enough as it is, now
we have this secondary thing that we’re pulling along side of it. Some people cobble
together a custom solution where both the vacuum and this are sitting on a cart and you can push that around, or you can consider some of the solutions that the manufacturers provide for us. Number one is casters. The
Oneida unit actually does come with casters but you have
to drill through the bucket and attach it with the nuts
to make that system work. Cool thing about the dust
right vortex is there’s already holes there for the
casters that it comes with. You just pop them in and it’s ready to go. Unfortunately the Clear Vue unit does not come with casters and you would have to go for a completely custom solution if you want that one to roll around with the actual dust extractor unit. But the Mini does have a
different sort of thought process. Instead of having it roll
around they’re thinking that you’re going to essentially
attach it to your dust extractor. It includes hardware and a connection kit to allow you to connect it permanently. Then this way you’re moving
your dust extractor or your shop-vac with this cyclone
connector as one unit. The Oneida system also comes with the hardware for connectivity. Really when it comes down to it, if you want rolling options
built in you’re going to be looking at either the Oneida
or the Dust Right Vortex, and if you want attachment
options you’re going to be looking at either the Oneida
or the CV06 from Clear Vue. Really because it has
both options I think the Oneida is going to be the
winner in this category. (swinging electric guitar) Now let’s take a look at the overall build quality of these units. We’ll start with the Dust Right Vortex. It’s all plastic construction, there’s really nothing to complain about, it’s fairly durable plastic. I think this thing would
take a beating pretty well. The casters on it,
they’re kind of cheap but really I wouldn’t expect
them to be super high quality casters and I don’t really
think that they need to be. This thing isn’t going to have
a whole lot of weight to it so that’s really not too much of an issue. Overall, a really well-built unit. The only complaint I have
about this one is the hose. The hose is that permanent flex crap, and it’s a fairly rigid plastic. This is something that if this hose were stepped on you would kink it, and you could possibly
split it and break it. It’s not the most durable
hose in the world, it certainly gets the job done, and if you have a setup
where this is somehow immobilized with reference to your actual dust collector it may not be an issue because nothing will ever move. But if you are rolling this thing around you’re going to have
this moving constantly, so this is just not my
favorite hose material. Otherwise a pretty well-built unit. Now the Clear Vue CV06 at
first glance I thought was the best of all three in terms
of durability. It’s got nice, thick plastic for the
cyclone unit at the top. It’s not real high so there’s
not much of a tip risk, it’s a fairly low profile cyclone. The lid is great. It’s a twist on lid that has a nice little locking mechanism, and it kind of makes
that ratcheting noise. (clicking) That lets you know that you’re
tightening it up and it’s very clear and obvious when
the lid is fully seated, so there’s no question there at all. Some thing some people might
be concerned about is the fact that the hardware that holds
the cyclone to the lid is nylon hardware instead of actual
metal bolts and nuts there. For something like this I
don’t know how much of a concern that is but I
figured I would bring it up. The one thing that just really,
really disappointed me with this was as I was using this
unit it wound up buckling in. The actual bucket itself sucked in because the pressure was too great. I’m not 100 percent sure
exactly why it happened, could just be a defect in
this particular bucket, but that was a bad thing. We’ll see it later when we
do the performance tests, you’ll actually see what it looks like, but I was really disappointed
because everything else about this unit is
really top notch quality. It is what it is. The Dust Deputy, honestly
there’s really nothing overly remarkable about it to say that its quality is any better than the other two. It’s all plastic, you’ve
got a plastic bin here, plastic cyclone, and I
can’t really tell you what the difference
between this plastic versus the other two types of
plastic, but it certainly looks durable enough for the job. I will say that there is metal hardware on this instead of nylon, so there’s a plus. The only thing that I think
I could really consider a negative about the overall
build quality is the lid. What I really like about
the other two units, both the Dust Right Vortex, and the CV06, is they both have a twist on
lid so you really know when that sucker is on there,
there’s no debating it at all, and it’s not going to pop
off, even if you lift up from the lid and the cyclone unit itself. Which of course the
instructions are going to tell you not to do that, but how
many of you are going to do it? You’re going to move
this thing at one point, even if you just forget that
you’re not supposed to do it, and you’re going to wind up
pulling this lid right off and you could very well get all that
dust thrown onto your floor. That’s definitely something to consider. When I look at all three
of these they all have some sort of flaw that I’m not
completely happy with, You might say it’s a three way tie but the fact that the bucket
on the CV06 collapsed on me, I’ve really got to take a
few more points off for that. I’m going to say this one
is a two way tie between the Dust Right Vortex and the Dust Deputy. (swinging electric guitar) Now the final attribute that we’re going to test today is performance. Really, this is the most
important thing. We want to know how much dust is caught by
the cyclone separator and how much makes it through
into our dust extractor. Normally in my dust extractor I use a bag to collect the fine dust. In this case I’m going to remove the bag, clean out the compartment
and then we’ll be able to see how much dust makes it into
that plastic compartment. We won’t necessarily
be weighing it or doing any sort of real scientific measurement, we’ll just look at it and
compare between the three units to see if one has
more dust than another. The other thing is, how am
I going to make the dust? I’ve got a soft maple board here, just leftover scrap from
the workbench project, and I’m going to use my
Festool rotex sander. In rotex mode this thing can
chew up some serious material. I’m going to run that for
five minutes straight for each one of the units to produce
a decent amount of dust. Then I’m going to go over and make three cuts at my sliding
compound miter saw, which also generates a lot of dust, but it’s a little bit larger in term of the actual size of the dust particles. This way we’ll have a
nice mix and hopefully enough material that
we can get a good judge of how well these things are working. Let’s get started. Let’s see how we did with the Dust Deputy. There really isn’t a whole
lot of accumulation here, just got that little bit right there. That’s really pretty darn good. Inside the can, that’s
where all the dust went. You can see we’ve got the
mixture of larger dust particles and the smaller dust particles
are in there as well. Let’s see how much dust made
it through the Mini CV06. You can see we’ve got quite
a bit more buildup here that made it through the
cyclone and into the actual dustbin of our dust
collector. Quite a bit more. Let’s take a look inside the
can, but before we do that, one interesting thing here
that was unexpected was the can on the CV06 just collapsed
under the pressure from the vac. Take that for what it is That actually may be
making it difficult to get this lid off until we get
it back to shape here. Of course, quite a bit
of dust in there but this collapsing here,
that’s kind of a problem. Now we’re going to look at the results from the Dust Right Vortex. As you can see, pretty good
accumulation of small dust in here. Let’s take a look at the bin. No real surprises here, pretty
good accumulation inside. You can see that. Let’s start the elimination
ceremony. Dust Right Vortex, you are well built, reasonably priced. You have a high capacity but unfortunately you’re just a little pitchy, dog. CV06, you’re attractive,
no doubt about it, but you’re a little bit
expensive for my taste. Going to have to let you go. Dust Deputy, at 79 dollars you were the cheapest unit in our entire test here. One might think of you
initially as the underdog, but your performance speaks for itself. You’re going to Hollywood. In all seriousness, if
you’re in the market for a cyclone separator, any
of these will get the job done. But if you really want to get the best and the best buy for your
money, the choice is clear. In this case, which is odd when you look
at shootouts like this, the cheapest one was the
highest performing one. The Dust Deputy without
a doubt was better at separating the fine dust
and making sure that fewer dust particles got
to the dust extractor. Both of these units were
comparable in terms of performance, but the Clear Vue unit is 150 bucks. You’re looking at 89
retail for the Vortex. Even between these two I would say the Vortex is probably the better buy, especially when this sucker is on sale you can get it for like 65 bucks. Unfortunately, I love Clear Vue, I own one of their cyclones, it’s an absolutely awesome unit, but I don’t think that
this one performance wise justifies its retail price, unfortunately. In this case, just was really surprised, I did not think that
the cheapest unit here would actually be the
highest performing one. The clear winner for
me is the Dust Deputy. (plucked acoustic guitar) (quenched fire)

100 thoughts on “170 – Cyclone Separator Shootout

  1. Is it possible to buy a shop vac with this cyclone system built in already, it seems really primitive to sort of drag this bucket on wheels around your workshop? Thanks

  2. i had the dust deputy attached to a cheaper bucket which also would collapse. my solution was to install a wire mesh from a fencing scrap to line the inside of the bucket, no problems since then.

  3. Thanks for the shootout vid. The 'Deputy" was on my list to get even before watching, but now I'm convinced it is the way to go. I'll be getting just the separator by itself and doing my own collection bucket thing to save even more $$. It's on sale right now at Menards for $45. Thanks again… Cheers!

  4. дайте размеры. высота. диаметры верхний и нижний самого конуса и центральная труба насколько ниже боковой?

    Give dimensions. height. the diameters of the top and bottom of the cone and the central pipe as far below the side?

  5. Is the cone shape part absolutely necessary for adequate dust collection? The clear view has a nice low profile but no cone. I'm in the process of building one but thinking of using a 5 gal bucket for the cyclone unit. Also, does the collection bucket below have to be round? Could a cube shaped box work?

  6. Lids shouldn't pop off in Use because of the vacuum that's on the Buckets, Dust Devil also has many Configurations, even a  metal Bucket Option and even a metal Cyclone with metal Bucket with metal lock system, of course for more Money IF anyone is Interested : http://www.oneida-air.com/category.asp?Id={CC6B6F2A-E3D7-4F18-A53C-B5C357DFE131}

  7. Thank you, I was going thru a hissy fit trying to decide. I always watch all your vid's , very interesting and interesting. Keep up the good work

  8. I’m not sure if they have them in the US, but in Australia Festool sell their own separator http://www.festool.com.au/epages/tooltechnic.sf/en_AU/?ObjectPath=/Shops/tooltechnic/Products/P28507 , or you can get them direct from the manufacturer http://floorex.com.au/cps-24-50-separator-floorex.html

  9. I have the Dust Deputy (made in the USA) sitting above a Fein vac and it works great! Very little goes into the vac. I made a wooden cart that rolls around, keeping the vac and collector together along with all the different vac attachments. Going vertical saves on shop space.

  10. Hi!
    3 questions here:
    I bought this 1hp dust collector for my table saw, planer, etc. See the picture here: http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server2500/9fa34wk/products/1957/images/2281/CT053_org.1435535458.430.450.jpg?c=2 and I will make a cyclone (like the dust deputy) for it.
    1. Does it change anything if I make the plastic and filter bags a lot smaller?
    2. How big should be the cyclone?
    3. Is it better to use only 4 inches hoses for the cyclone and the dust collector?

  11. In series with my shop vac I am using a commercial cyclonic dust separator on top of a big bucket. The arrangement keeps the shop vac filter clean but I find the suction pressure is noticeably reduced. Do you think filling the shop vac bucket with something might help. I was considering maybe polystyrene foam or water bottles to reduce the overall system volume .

  12. hello I have a 2hp dust collector and I tried the small dust cyclone and lost suction bad. even when using a 30 gal trash can sealed closed. thought about venting it outside but want a chip separator that doesn't make me lose suction. any suggestions on a cyclone or something to try to use without losing suction.

  13. ALL THESE SOLUTIONS ARE EXPENSIVE – BUT – THERE IS A COPYCAT SOLUTION IDENTICAL IN DESIGN TO THE WINNER – Just go to ebay and buy this attachment (Ebay No – 252712235352) and a bucket if you don't have one already. Glue them together and you have a MINI-CV06 copycat for peanuts.

  14. I never noticed the clock, I was too interested in the review. I just tried one for a rock pulverizing circuit and it worked well. Not as well as with wood, but still a big improvement over other alternatives.

    I wanted to commend you on your presentation as it was very quick, thorough, and useful.

    I'm not much into wood working, but you sure did a good job on this video.

    Keith

  15. I like the vid, i think you can modify performance of Vortex by adding a divider inside to seperate the in and out, or extend the tube of "In" to mimic the "dust duty" this is so that once the dust enters the drum, it will be lower/ compared to the farther than the exit(to vacum) port.

  16. Great comp. review. 

    Five years on, a price hike, but I saw this clip and bought. I got the DIY Dust Deputy, $50–I bolted it to a HD bucket lid. The version with 2 buckets and wheels cost $100. Center of gravity is not low enough to resist tipping over when in use to clean floors. Static use with a bench or floor power equipment poses no problems. It will get a stability solution.

  17. …the collapsing bucket hmmmm; could it be too much suction due to some obstruction? Maybe small diameter hosing at the vortex inlet?

  18. Great video! Any particular size/power of shop vac needed for pairing with dust deputy? Newbie here starting a small shop in half of 2 car garage. Thanks.

  19. Buena Noches deseo saber para adquirir y comprar puesto en Colombia Yopal Casanare que costo tiene soy emprendedor, soy artesano en cacao para proceso de chocolate y bomboneria.

  20. I know this post is 5+ years old but I still got a lot of valuable information from it. Thank you for taking the time to post your results as well as updates!

  21. I have the dust deputy bought just the cyclone top put on my own bucket had one like the clear view and my shop vac collapsed that bucket have a metal can now works great

  22. A $200 bag are they serious wow is that in US dollars because I live in Australia and I don't think I can handle a $270 a bag lol

  23. Oh it's a Gold bag with diamonds now it makes sense . I reckon you would be able to make a material bag with one of the old fittings off a disposable bag .

  24. Dust Deputy can collapse the bucket like the CV-06 which is why DD comes with two buckets. Doubling them up prevents it from collapsing.

  25. Clones of the Dust Deputy for sale on eBay for less than $20, just search for dust cyclone. Also handy to put a garbage bag in the bucket before you snap the lid on. You might be able to fix the collapse problem on the mini if you put it inside another bucket to stiffen up the sides.

  26. Great Review and Real World Testing…I was researching for my small hobbyist shop a reliable working dust collection system, and the Oneida Dust Deputy made my "must buy" list, I just need confirmation. Thank You!!!!

  27. I stand corrected. My bad. That dust deputy did a great job. Thanks for straightening me out. It was late at night when I watched this and I thought you were showing the separator result 1st, then the vacumn. Also can these work with 1 7/8" hose on smaller shop vacs?

  28. I like my Oneida, but it is made of very thin plastic. It is not going to hold up to any rough treatment.

  29. Hello Mr Wood Whisper!
    Do you know if anyone have tried to use the Dust Deputy top on a Sys5? Then it's secured on top of the Festool extractor and would work out just fine! Dont you think?

    Best regards from Sweden

  30. I made a cyclone dust collector with a nice heavy duty barrel and it just sucked the thing flat,it helped when I turned the suction down.By the Lord Harry if has some suck to it..

  31. The Dust Deputy is really expensive here in Canada. However there are alot of knock offs on Ebay. Anyone have any idea if these are any good, or should I put up all the extra money to buy the real thing?

  32. Any experience with PVC piping vs. metal pipes with regards to price, static electricity, ease of installation, ect.?
    Have heard, that static electricity can build up in a system and eventually ignite the fine dust, if not grounded.

  33. the Clear Vue CV06 mini that is sold on the ClearVue site comes with a long funnel, but your testing unit doesn't? That may explain why the ClearVue CV06 mini in this test didn't perform as well as the Dust Deputy on separating out fine dusts?

  34. Just looking at them should make it obvious to most with minor understanding for physics, that the Oneida would be the one with the best separation. A flat structure does not have the same capability to drop the finer dust in the vessel as the taller ones do, which is also clearly illustrated in the test. One reason the Oneida works so well, is that it is a scaled copy of well known industrial applications, which have been calculated over and over and over again, based on airflow, type of material, filter capabilities, abrasion and everything else known to man, that might be relevant. One of the secrets is that the outlet pipe needs to extend lower into the cone, than the inlet, so only the inner and outer vortexes operate alongside one another, eliminating any direct draft from the inlet tube to the suction tube, thus giving a more effective separation. For industrial scale systems everything is calculated. Dimensions, angles, pipe lengths and so on. Multiple cyclones might even be coupled together to get rid of even more particles. In this case air speed is usually a factor to make greater use of the centrifugal forces, which explains why two cyclones connected are usually neither the same size, nor geometry. Dump the large and heavy stuff first at lower speeds, and then accellerate the rest in the next cyclone, to get rid of the finer particles. This way you can achieve ratings clean enough to release directly into outside air for some applications. Some might need final filtration, especially when dealing with toxic material.

    On a side note this could also be an argument NOT to buy a lifetime bag, since it means the risk of getting exposed to particles. With concealed one time use bags, it stays in the bag, and you minimize the risk of getting in contact with hazardous materials. Usually the finer dust is the most dangerous, as a wood chip is pretty easy to spit out, but that is not true for asbestos or fibre glass dust. Some wood dusts are also very unattractive, as they promote cancer, like merbau for instance. Whatever ends up in the extraction bins is not in your lungs – make sure your system runs as efficiently as possible and is well maintained.

  35. Dust deputy works but over priced, the Banggood.com turbo works even better at about half the price! If you can stand the 26 day length of time to get to you (free shipping) its worth every penny, and with the white one you can see the material swirl around.

  36. I have had to replace the dust right lid now twice – keeps cracking – seal is good – product works well – lid is less than a good item

  37. 2:21 Dust separators don't filter out the fine dust, they filter out the coarse dust. Its the coarse dust that gets through to jam your pleated filters and cause your numerous shop vacuums to fail. You really can't stop the fine dust from getting through. That's what the filters are for, when it comes to shop vacs.

  38. My home built dust deputy collapsed every bucket I threw at it. I built a brace that sits in the middle of the bucket and viola!!! Love the dust deputy.

  39. Got myself a dust deputy, without the hardware and bucket for just $30, bought a used 13 gallon high density Polyethylene barrel with a sealing hatch at the top for $10, removed the primary filter on the shop-vac, only kept the foam protector on the motor, and that thing sucks everything, all is kept in the 13 gallon barrel, once every blue moon I empty the barrel….my most satisfying buy! No more bags, I used to buy bags every other month….

  40. Well, as HE said, "A cyclone separator is essentially a bucket with a fancy lid". Exactly. Just a scrap paint bucket and 1$ worth of plastic plumbing. The most expensive part are the wheels. If they have them.

  41. Rockler has a kit to asttach  the DustRight Vortex to a shop vac. Currently on Rocklers website as; RustRight Vacuum Harness, Item number 53212, currently listed for $29.99.

  42. Dust deputy is a clear winner by a whole lot
    Mini cv-06 is the clear looser

    And that without even looking at the price

  43. One thing this test did not do was how much suction loss (both air flow loss and pressure head loss) was caused by the interruption. In actual use, more suction loss means less of the wood dust would be captured. It's entirely possible that although the Vortex may have the least effective fine dust separation, it MAY have the least suction loss and MAY end up capturing the most dust during actual usage.

  44. I'm debating building it or buying it. I realize this thread is old, but it's still the same principles at work. Thanks for the video and the common sense testing!

  45. thanks for taking your time to do this review… however all those units are way over priced… 75 dollars for a bucket (the deputy) and even worse 145 for the mini cyclone??? that's daylight robbery… right now on Ebay the Chinese deputy knock off (without the bucket) sells for about 15 dollars including shipping and a 25L bucket is about $4 at the hardware across the road… i cant imagine that in China the cost of moulding plastic can be 5 times cheaper than the US

  46. just found your channel and im glad i did. but a serious question for you. Did you replace the battery in the clock yet?

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